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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Tue Jan 31st, 2006 02:58 am |
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I have a couple of kayaks and Old Town square back canoe that I use almost all year long, but over the past few years I have been seeing Adirondack Guide Boats at some of the local shows and they have caught my interest. Currently I am considering a 15' Kevlar Adirondack Guide Boat for canal and river touring in New Jersey and also touring the Massachusetts and southern Maine shorlines/island exploring. Probably 75% of the time I will be going solo and the rest of the time I will have at least one passenger. Along with using the oars, I'll probably also be using a 30 pound thrust trolling motor.
What are your thoughts on and experiences with Adirondack Guide Boats?
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Thom V
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Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2006 06:25 pm |
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Hi Chuck,
It’s my opine that the Guide-Boat for solo human powered beach camping is second to none… In the 14 to 16 ft range the ability of this boat to carry gear and travel over the water at a steady clip through all kinds of weather is renowned. “A Saranac boat is one of the finest things that the skill of man has ever produced under the inspiration of the wilderness…so dexterously fashioned that it rides the heaviest waves like a duck and slips through the water as if by magic” (quote from Henry Van Dyke’s 1895 “Little Rivers, A Book Of Essays In Profitable Idleness”).
The Guide-Boat probably evolved out of the Native Indian birch bark canoe in New York’s Adirondack Mountain lakes. With the forest way to dense, wilderness travel was accomplished by these small light and shapely rowboats harvesting fish and game, portaging the narrow land bridges between the myriad of open lakes. By the late 19th century these double ended row boats (and “row” is the operative word here, though these boats look like canoes they were designed to be rowed) had evolved to a highly refined shape, double ended high short decked bow and stern, low wide mid-sections, narrow flat slightly built down bottoms, with compound curved sides and long hollow sections fore and aft at the waterline for speed.
The Guide-Boat with its rowing position closer to the waterline (one gets the feeling of being 'in the boat' not 'on the boat') lowers the center of gravity, and after loading the boat with gear, can travel in rough water with aplumb. These boats have low initial stability, kind of ‘tippy’ -- or as the old timers phrased it ‘cranky’ -- while entering or leaving the craft. Add a load of gear and the boat stiffens up providing excellent secondary stability, much greater than most canoes size for size.
I have a Guide-Boat from the Indian Point Guide Boat Co. Midland PA built by the owner Gardner Callanen. It's one of his last as he stopped building in early 2005. Mine is built-up from 20 oz. bi-axial fiberglass cloth with the hull weighing in at 55lbs. Included are 3 cane seats, floor boards and wood (ash I believe) gunwales. She is the LOON model 14' LOA, 38" Beam at Mid-Sheer, Mid-ship Depth 12 3/4", Bow Height 23". She is the simplified construction meaning no interior ribs, but does have an epoxy/graphite bottom (highly recommended). Note also the bottom shape of the Guide-Boat in the picture below. One of the reasons I think these short waterline boats are relatively fast is due to the 'built down' bottom shape, called a “bottom board”. As the water moves along and down the hollow and rounded sides of the boat, mini vortexes (circles of water) are created. Vortexes create drag to the hull. When the vortexes hit the built down bottom they 'straighten-out' and travel along that bottom ridge to the stern reliving pressure and hence drag. Swampscott dories that used to add on a separate built down plank bottom (to the shape of the bottom) experienced the same phenomenon, i.e. faster travel over the water whether sailing or rowing.
The mold for LOON came from an actual Guide-Boat designed and built by a fellow named Emerson on Long Lake, NY (the geographical center of the Adirondacks) in the 1890's. Though not as widely known as Guide-Boat builders Grant and Parsons, Emerson had a keen eye for small fast Guide-Boats. LOON is so sweetly shaped and moves through the water (when properly set up) so effortlessly, that it is a joy to row and be aboard. As you may know from the Small Boat Forum Adventures page, I have taken two camping trips in LOON, the Bowron Lake Circuit and Murtle Lake (both in the wilderness of B.C. Canada) and this year we are planning on doing the Upper Missouri River system 149 miles from Ft. Benton MT. to the Kipp Rec. Area. On the Bowron I was too new to the boat and did not have my gear set properly, the boat would not track well (yawing at the end of a stroke) and had reduced ‘carry’ between strokes. I was dead last day after day... I spoke with the builder Gardner about this and he set me straight. On the Murtle Lake trip I was able to stay with or get out in front all the other boats with little effort, even with boats that had 18’ waterlines. The gear has to settle this Guide-Boat down by the stern, more than one would think. All of a sudden she tracked like on a rail, the carry between strokes increased by a third and no one came near me. This trip being first to the beach, I got my pick of the tent sites!
In our area (Puget Sound) the intrepid small boat camper Jack Hornung has a Callanen LOON model too but with the ribs installed (I probably should have had a few ribs installed through the center of my boat for when we are portaging using the canoe cart, and the boat is full of gear, there is a bit of flex... I may have to do a retro fit in time). When the Bowron trip came up I had no person to paddle a canoe with, so I called Jack and we agreed on price for his Guide-Boat. Then Jack called back, he said he told his daughter that he was selling the boat and she cried... He could not part with it as his daughter loved to row it! I had to purchase new from PA. Now Gardner stated that I should buy the 15 or 16’ model but I am so glad I did not. The LOON is perfect single hander for me (older dude) and I can stay out for 6 to 9 days without replenishing food or clothing. Also, with effort and a canoe cart, I can do a mild portage by myself.
The oars are so important to the success of a Guide-Boat. The shape of the blade, the oar throat, oar handle, weight and hardware is special and different from most rowboats. Uniquely, the oars are pinned to the rowlock shank. There is only so much movement the oar can accomplish once struck home to the rowlock receiver on the outside of the gunwale. At the end of the return stroke (arms extended) the oar sets up to just the right angle to drop into the water without a sound and have the proper bite. One pulls the oars through the water (not too deep) with enough effort to keep the ongoing speed the boat has mustered from rest. The hands now cross to the chest and one can sense just when to push the handles down and the blades rise from the water leaving a clean power puddle -- which begins the rhythmic process all over again.
Some resources for Guide Boat information: The Adirondack Guide-Boat a definitive work authored by Kenneth and Helen Durant with plan illustrations by John Gardner, available on the net or your favorites book emporium. The Adirondack Museum – Blue Mountain Lake has much information with plan sets and patterns available for Guide-Boats. One can also Google “adirondack guide boat” and spent some time perusing the offerings.
Anybody else have some experience with these boats? Last edited on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 11:15 pm by Thom V |
CGRLCDR
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Posted: Mon Feb 6th, 2006 12:47 am |
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Thom, thanks for the response. As usual you are a wealth of information. I purchased a copy of The Adirondack Guide-Boat from http://www.amazon.com a couple of weeks ago and have been reading it every spare moment I get.
Along with the kayaks and the other boats parked all over my yard, I have a 17' Old Town Sport (square back) that I use for canal and river exploring in New Jersey and Massachusetts. Usually we use canoe paddles and the electic trolling motor with exceptioanlly good results. In fact, the Sport has turned out to be the perfect canal explorer - I'll send you some pictures and a story when I get a chance. In anticipation of getting a Guide Boat, over the past 3 - 4 four weeks since the weather has been so great here in NJ, I have been rowing (using the oars) the Sport at every opportunity with good results, except for the stiff neck from looking over my shoulder all the time. Yesterday, for example, I plowed into a big log floating around the lake because I wasn't looking where I was going or expecting to run into anything out there.
This time of year I'm the only craft out on the water so collisions are not a serious concern, but come spring and summer things tend to get crowded on the water around here and not everyone is as courteous as we would like. I'm pretty much sold on Guide Boats (http://www.adirondack-guide-boat.com/kevlarguideboats.html), but my only concern is being able to adapt to rowing backwards. I'm guessing that on your adventures on the upper-left coast you don't have to deal with a lot of traffic. How do you get used to safely rowing backwards in a Guide Boat in areas where there is a fair amount of traffic and you are rowing solo?
Chuck
PS - Having asked the question and thought about it a little, probably if there's enough traffic to raise a concern about safety, I should take one of the kayaks out and reserve the Guide Boat for canals, non-motor boating areas, or the off season when the nut cases aren't out. But still, I wonder about how to get used to rowing backwards and looking over my shoulder to see where I am going.
Last edited on Mon Feb 6th, 2006 01:23 am by CGRLCDR |
JEM
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Posted: Tue Feb 7th, 2006 01:40 pm |
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Anyone think there were be any desire for a stitch-and-glue (plywood) Guideboat?
Now it would be a slightly different shape since you couldn't get plywood to bend in the bow stem area like on a strip-built or molded Guideboat.
But I bet you could get the shape reasonably close. It would assemble in maybe 40-60 hours of hands-on time.
Opinions?
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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Tue Feb 7th, 2006 04:05 pm |
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JEM,
That's a possibility I hadn't considered. Part of the allure of a guide boat is the graceful, flowing lines; my gut feeling is that you would loose some of that with stitch and glue panels, but my "gut feelings" are wrong about half the time. Like back in the early 1980s I had a gut feeling that personal computers would never catch on.
Can you do a computer generated sketch so we can see what a stitch and glue guide boat might look like? For one thing, even if you do loose some of the graceful lines, I would imagine that a stitch and glue model would be considerably cheaper and easier to build than a stip version. Also, 40 - 60 hours sounds attractive compared to 400 hours for the strip version.
Chuck
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JEM
Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 7th, 2006 11:59 pm |
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ok keep in mind this is just a sketch I've been fooling with.
No frames, bow stems (which I think I can use to aid assembly), gunwales, etc, have been drawn in.
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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2006 01:52 pm |
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JEM, that looks pretty good. The concept kind of reminds me of your BHC. Would this model be something like 15' long and 42" wide? Do you plan on transforming the sktch into plans?
Chuck
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JEM
Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2006 02:33 pm |
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It's close to the BHC design. Actually, the BHC started as this one but the builder wanted something longer and more of a "canoe" look.
I want to make this one as close to an "authentic" Guidboat as possible, in stitch and glue. So I'd match the general specs, add stems, and seats, etc.
Once concern I have is the plywood conforming to the bends I've drawn in the bows, mostly the very top panel. I believe 4mm Okoume would handle it just fine. I'm concerned that lesser quality plywood could not make that bend. I've started offering complete building kits, so I'm considering make this a kit-only purchase. No panel drawings. I don't like the idea of that option, but it may be a necessary evil.
But I'm not sure. Best thing would be to prototype it, but I have another boat I'm building so I won't get to it until maybe the summer.
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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2006 02:54 pm |
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| I might be interested, but I was looking for a guide boat this spring. Please let me know if you accelerate your schedule.
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JEM
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Posted: Wed Feb 8th, 2006 03:51 pm |
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e-mail me at info@jemwatercraft.com and we can discuss.
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JEM
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Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2006 08:09 pm |
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Just wanted to post an update.
We've come up with some pretty neat innovations on how to build this concept in a simple manner.
CGRLCDR, I believe I lost your e-mail! Haven't forgot about your request. Just been re-hashing the assembly and features.
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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Sat Jul 1st, 2006 12:14 am |
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 I decided to bite the bullet and purchase an Adirondack Guideboat about 3 months ago. It is 15' long and made of Kevlar with a sliding seat. So far I have had it out about 10 - 12 times and am delighted. With the sliding seat it is extremely fast and stable. I thoroughly enjoy having young guys in kayaks pull up next to me to check out the boat and see what I can do - I quickly leave them in my wake and then circle around later on to chat.
My only problem and complaint so far is constantly having to look over my shoulder to see where I am going. In fact I have a stiff neck right now from looking over my shoulder. I have tried a temple mounted mirror made for bicyclists with mixed success. It sort of works, but doesn't give me the full range of vision that I would like. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Marty C
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Posted: Mon Jul 31st, 2006 08:40 pm |
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Tom,
I just found this forum and your notes about the Guideboat and trimming it for rowing.
I purchased a Steve Kaulback guideboat this spring and have been rowing it on Lake Erie since.
It's a Great Lake, but shallow, sizeable waves on occasion, steep and close together. Lots of crashing going upwind in 3 - 4 footers and loss of way. A bit of sway going downwind in those conditions, no broaching yet.
I'm looking to take it on multi-day cruises and was interested in your comments about placement of gear to keep the boat from wandering about and to allow the greatest glide.
You're suggesting trimming down by the stern more than expected. Does this mean trim the boat stern heavy as opposed to level? And does it matter whether going upwind, side to wind or downwind?
Thanks,
Marty Cooperman
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Thom V
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Aug 4th, 2006 05:06 pm |
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Hi Marty,
On the issue of adding ballast to a Guide-Boat: It’s my opine that in almost all conditions adding some ballast helps the handling of the boat. It can be camping gear OR sand or rocks picked up at the launch site and placed in bags then added to the bottom of the boat. In the short wave conditions you speak of the Guide-Boat definitely needs some additional weight. What happens is the narrow bow does it's job in slicing the wave, but then as the boat moves ahead the fat buoyant 'apple cheek' sides begin to add lift and the boat, without ballast, exaggerates the hobby horse motion you speak of -- following the wave pattern. Your going to have to experiment in various conditions and add ballast as necessary to 'push through' the wave a bit more before the bow lifts. Now there is a balancing act here: If you have too much weight in the boat the wave will ride over the sides and enter the boat.
As to how my boat behaves, it definitely behaves better with more weight in the stern section. The photo below shows the trim stern down at which the Indian Point Guide-Boat rows the best. I found that with the stern down the boat will glide straight and true -- after the oar stroke -- and not yaw as soon as I take the oars out of the water. I pack my heaviest gear just aft of the foot brace, I even put a gallon of water just behind the rear seat back.
When going into the wind, depending on the strength, I find that the boat slows substantially. The reason seems to be more not being able to feather the oars due to the pined row locks. Also, in a Guide-Boat to windward we are stuck with the high bow and on the Kaulback model it is higher yet than the Indian-Point boat. Most lake canoe designs have a much lower flatter bow. However, the bow man gets wet in these conditions. Down wind is no problem (so far) with the stern trimmed down. Side wind is no fun though. I tend to quarter the waves and tack the boat to the destination instead of trying to go from point A to B in a straight line in a cross wind. One oar has more power most of the time and I compensate the power of the other blade, as best I can. It’s a tussle to move ahead in this unbalanced condition but it’s the only way I have found so far.
So Marty, take some pictures of your camping adventures in your Guide-Boat and we will put up a photo essay on the Small Boat Adventure page…!?
Anyway, hope the above helps and let us know how it goes.
Thom V Attachment: Guide-Boat on the Missouri.jpg (Downloaded 126 times)
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Marty C
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Posted: Wed Aug 9th, 2006 05:16 pm |
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Tom,
Thanks for your good reply and photo. I'll give it a try, trimming her down by the stern a bit with some water jugs for when there's no camping gear aboard.
I do notice that when 2 are in the boat, it stops swaying sideways downwind as more of the 'keel' of the boat is in the water. But going upwind in tends to hobby horse and plunge. My guess is that having all the weight in the ends of a fine ended boat is not the best thing to do, but that's all the options I've got if my wife wants to come too.
I don't have a photo but do have a little story about a day trip on Lake Erie that might be interesting. Here it is:
Saturday I had planned to head up to Lake Erie with my wife Edie, but some business appointments prevented her from going at all, and changing Lake Erie conditions prevented me from attempting it. I drove up to the Marblehead Peninsula for the opportunity to check out both launch areas on Lake Erie and Sandusky Bay. The forecast had changed from a modest 5 - 15 knot north winds, to 10 - 20 knots. Lake Erie looked grim. Big whitecapped rollers were tumbling into shore and there wasn't a boat to be seen from Kelley's Island to Put-In-Bay, but about a dozen fellows were standing around their sizeable fishing boats, still on trailers at the ramp, discussing things. I got the general idea. I headed over to the bay, about 7 miles long x 5 wide.
Protected from the northeast wind it was a much better choice. One that not only I , but another fellow noticed too. He, quite by coincidence, arrived by truck moments after me with 3 of his fine home-built wooden kayaks on the roof and two prospective paddlers in the front: Debbie, primarily a whitewater paddler and her Mom Gayle a canoeist. I had my Adirondack Guideboat. This fellow's kayaks are very nicely crafted, their only flaw being that they were designed for sea conditions rather than for ducking under during a rain. They provide scant protection. Fortunately the rain shower was brief. We agreed to paddle together for a while.
We casually paddled south around Johnson's Island and into an old quarry, now with an entrance blasted through to Sandusky Bay, and a fancy home development inside. The site was dramatic, the homes on the shale and sandstone cliffs, but the houses were not; basic McMansions that you'd find on any upscale suburban lot. We stopped to visit a curious water snake, then I headed over to Baypoint (or Bay Pointe if you're a real estate developer) while Bill, Debbie and Gayle rounded Johnson's Island to return to the launch site. Baypoint is the finest natural beach in an area not well provided with beaches, and reminds me of the nook and cranny east coast beaches from my youth in Long Island Sound, perfect for camping. In fact about a dozen people had arrived in several motor boats and had set up tents for just that purpose. But the area is big enough to hold several groups like that without one interfering with the other.
I crossed the bay to the city of Sandusky with some largish following waves following me as I passed the open mouth of the bay where the northeast winds poured in from the open Lake. The boat would start to sway sideways but never broached; it was easy to control with the oars. The Sandusky waterfront is a study in the heavy-handed application of stone and concrete, resulting in riccocheting waves and few hospitable landings. But I did find two little man-made inlets adjacent to a park that allowed for little boats to be put in (or in my case, taken out) without too much effort. These were not deliberate launch areas, but accidental ones. I was happy for the 15 minute break from rowing.
I headed east under the Cedar Point amusement park causeway and up Pipe Creek stopping at Rt. 6 where I was assured by a paddler familiar with the area, that I could get a small boat launched. You can, with some careful stepping over broken chunks of concrete. You can also see the over-development of the creek with a T.G.I.F. Fridays, acres of tall condos, a beach club, myriad docks, and Scarab-like speed boats, etc. It begs for the remedy of a limited tactical airstrike. Why waste weaponry overseas when we need it more desperately right here at home. Know any Air Force pilots with an itchy trigger finger?
On the way back I hugged the amusement park shoreline, less for the delights of eavesdropping on shrieking roller coaster fans than to keep the NE winds at bay for as long as possible. Then, aiming for the big, fixed light tower in the center of the passage I struck out across the exposed part of the bay for Johnson's Island about 3 miles away.
It was clear the winds had increased. Probably 15-25 knots (confirmed by listening to the weather radio when I returned home and heard of the small craft advisory). Those 15-25 knots were headed into the bay and catching me 60
degrees to the bow. Rowing became clumsy as steep waves disrupted my rhythm. My right arm became sore as I tried to counteract the waves' push downwind and off my intended course. I'm guessing they were 3 - 4 feet as the higher ones came to eye level. I remembered the lines from a book I'm reading, Jonathan Raban's 'Passage to Juneau', where he reflects upon his feelings upon setting out on a sailing voyage, being one of impending adventure mixed with incipient panic.
I get into a bit of a trance in this kind of situation, where my body is doing the rowing and my mind is somewhat disconnected, half numbed by the rough motion of the waves and the grim sight of them, half analytically studying just where I am, how far I have to go, what angle to best point the boat, and how far I'd have to swim should worse come to worst. I figured I had about an hour and a half to slowly fight my way across the exposed part of the bay, the light tower being about the half way mark and probably the greatest point of exposure. A big dark cloud came across the sun making the bay look more gloomy and ominous, the water a nasty grey green. Then a wave more properly belonging to Lake Erie, managed to sneak its way into the bay.
I was just past the light tower when I heard it. A sharp hissing sound, too fast for me to turn around and look, and then a breaking wave slammed into me and the boat. I felt the water hit my lifejacket, saw some come aboard, felt the spray whiz past my face and watched, amazed, as the boat slewed about 5 feet sideways. Impending adventure gave way to post-incipient panic. There wasn't much water in the boat, at least not enough to bail. Oddly, the boat had not tipped. Instead of catching and tripping, it seemed to just skid sideways. Not facing the wave, I never saw it and wasn't doing anything to brace or steady the boat. I guess the boat just took care of itself. It's a refined dory shape and I suppose that's what dories do.
I hurriedly looked around for the next big one, figuring I was now in an area where breaking waves were the norm, but they returned to their 3 - 4 foot size and I returned to the oars a bit shaken, but oddly reassured. It was another hour back into the protection of first Baypoint which broke the waves and then Johnson's Island which did the same for the wind. Several big 50+ foot motor cruisers came past, probably to check out how I was doing. They likely saw a head occasionally appearing above the waves and wanted to know if anything was attached to it. Not wanting a gesture to be misinterpreted, I didn't wave to them and they slowly passed by.
My last adventure was finding both the remaining wind and waves driving straight into the launch ramp opening as I tried to maneuver past the docks without bashing one. I grabbed my canoe paddle for the final maneuvers but dislodged an oar by accident and was obliged to paddle back and retrieve it. I, having far more windage than the oar, had a bit of a struggle to reach it. Then I lassoed a dock cleat, made fast, and hopped out. Terra Firma at last. Some 22 miles on the water. As a distinctly land-bound friend once said: 'the more firma, the less terror'.
Marty Cooperman
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Marty C
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Posted: Fri Aug 11th, 2006 07:42 pm |
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Another little story:
Last night a friend, Tom, who bought a 12 foot Vermont Pack Boat from the same fellows who made my Guideboat and I joined a group of sea kayakers at what was to have been a dead calm at a park on the shores of Lake Erie. 2 foot waves with the occasional 3 footer greeted us from the northeast breaking onto the beach.
The first kayaker to launch made it 4 feet out then capsized but was nicely rescued by the others. I retrieved his paddle.
Tom managed a successful launch with nary a drop aboard. I was not so fortunate, the Guideboat turning a bit sideways just before I hopped in and with the bow up and me in the stern with the canoe paddle I couldn't quite get the boat square to the waves and took water up to the floor boards before I grabbed the oars and made my escape from the surf. A large concrete & steel pier loomed ominously to leeward.
Eventually all the kayakers made it out, but just hung around the area so Tom and I set off upwind to a nearby river harbor, upwind, about 3 miles away. Every few waves sets we'd get bigger ones which would splash a bit more water aboard. Tom told me he was at first quite nervous but eventually realized that even with the boat turned broadside to the waves they weren't going to take it over, although at one point he did ask if I thought we could right the boat and re-board. I told him no, I didn't think so. But I also told him I didn't think we'd capsize unless the waves were really, really big. By the end of the trip I think he believed me. Sort of.
Tom made a neat bicycle mirror holder for his gunwale which I tried out, but decided I liked my glasses mirror better. You need something to see behind you. He made a similar device to hold a waterproof plastic jug to the other gunwale with a few valuables and munchies. All cleverly done.
We captured some fine admiring glances from the picnickers who lived in fancy houses with boathouses near the river mouth. These boathouses once sheltered the commercial fishing fleet until that was banned in favor of sport fishing. We headed back. The kayakers were all ashore and cartopping their boats by the time we arrived back at the beach, the waves now pushing us downwind in rushes as they reared up and swooped down on us - a great ride.
My technique for a surf landing is to reverse direction so that I and the stern of the boat are facing land, slowing the boat down, keeping the boat square to the waves until the last moment. Then, yanking the oars from their sockets, grabbing the paddle, bracing or paddling to turn the boat square to the beach, grabbing the large diameter 1/2 pool noodle as I see ground, I hop out and roll the boat up to safety.
Tom has devised a different technique: he just rows in, accelerates down a wave, looks behind him in alarm to discover he's about to crash land, attempts to jump out of the boat to save it from the shore, falls into the water instead and has me use the pool noodle to drag the boat on shore while the oars snag, but fortunately don't break on the sand, as he wades ashore. This is more fun in August than, say, April.
I donated the other 1/2 pool noodle to him and we made our way to an ice cream shop nearby for a long-awaited dinner.
Marty Cooperman
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CGRLCDR
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Posted: Wed Jan 31st, 2007 12:50 am |
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It has been awhile. I hope everyone on the left coast is having lots of boating fun. Hopefully I'll be out paddling/sailing/motoring in just a few weeks as soon as it warms up a little here in NJ. I did a little canoeing just before Christmas, but haven't been out since, mainly due to the weather.
As stated I have had a Guideboat since last summer and have had a ball with it. Just recently the manufacturer sent out an email advertisement on their new sailing rig modification for their Guideboat. It includes a clamp on frame that attaches to the gunwales, rotating leeboards, mast spar, gaf rig/sail, rigging, and kick up rudder; all for $2000.
I have seen their sail rig at the NY boatshow and it is well designed/manufactured. In particular, I like their kick up rudder design which employs an internal bungee cord that holds the rudder in the down position until an object is encountered at which point it rises until clear of the object and then returns to the down position.
The good news is that the package looks neat and functional, but at $2000 it is a bit on the pricy side. They report that the Guideboat sails well with the rig and that the 8 people who have purchased kits so far are quite satisfied. I like the sailing canoe concept, but I am not so sure that a Guideboat is the right target for such a modification due to it low freeboard amidships.
Your thoughts.....
Also, I came across this ebook on an 1882 sailing canoe adventure from Lake George, NY to Pensicole, FL. I thought it was a fascinating look at life and boating adventures more than 100 years ago. Thom, you can probably identify with a lot of what they endured and enjoyed.
http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/CC_Eric/aurora_contents.html
Enjoy!
Chuck G
Last edited on Thu Feb 1st, 2007 01:36 pm by CGRLCDR |
Thom V
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Posted: Thu Feb 1st, 2007 10:21 pm |
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Hi Chuck,
Enjoyed the link to the long river trip by canoe… Whew, the trips we take to fit our work vacations are just not in the same league (all though the Missouri River trip was a stunner)!
The weather here has been very cold and stormy (for the NW) so we have been planning our warm weather boating instead.
As to the sail rig for a Guide-Boat: On the Bowron Lake Circuit I would have liked to have had some sort of auxiliary sail for the 18 mile downwind trek on Isaak Lake. Of course to effect steering, some sort of rudder needs to juried up. Maybe something that attaches to the gunnel with some sort of push pull tiller all arranged near the seating position; not attached to the stern stem. Or maybe, as I carry a brake down extra long kayak paddle, I could just place a blade in the water to turn the boat in the direction needed to keep the sail filled. Either would allow a person to be seated facing forward. Maybe something like Spirit Sails product for a kayak could be rigged up to a Guide-Boat.
I agree with you on the shape of the Guide-Boat not being conducive to sailing, especially up-wind. This would mean in any kind of a breeze, with some decent square footage of sail, one would have to place one’s butt on the gunnel to hold the boat in some sort of upright mode-- carefully following the wind shifts to avoid capsizing. The body is now in isometric tension, the mental focus is keenly trying to stay ahead of the inevitable – and -- it reminds me too much of work…! Also, a full sailing rig would encroach on limited boat space for a long trek.
So an auxiliary sailing system would do better for me. It all depends as to how you will use the boat. Certainly looking at the long history of sailing canoes anything is possible and under certain wind conditions with a full sailing system the excitement could stop a heart. Then again with $2K plus in expenses just for the sail and accoutrements, one could buy a Shell Boats Swifty 12 kit with sail and have money left over…
TheOpineKid Thom V
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LBGW
Member
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Posted: Sun Apr 15th, 2007 08:13 pm |
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Thom,
Just for your information and any others out there on this forum, we have purchased the Guideboat business from Gard Callanen. Not only are we making the composite boats, but wood strippers in several different styles> We also have a new model which is a stripped version of the Bain & Co St. Lawrence River Skiff. If you or any others out there are interested in guideboats, look us up on the website at:
Littlebeaverguideboatworks.com
Jim and Hans
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EastOfMidnight
Member
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Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2007 11:51 pm |
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For lots of ADK Guide Boat pictures, check out http://www.adkforum.com/photos/main.php
If you'd like to have your pride and joy listed, please contact me.
JH Bahn
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